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Time to Grow a Spine; Quit for Good
Topic Started: Apr 15 2010, 06:02 PM (6,137 Views)
jmiah
Member Avatar
Bastardly Quitter
[ *  * ]
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 7:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Please don't punish yourself for mistakes you are already atoning for...ie quit. You don't deserve to suffer until the end of time because you are an addict. temporary mood dysfunction is not uncommon after nicotine cessation but it should only be temporary. It is quite possible though that either this is a funk do to being quit, or it is that you self-medicated with a stimulant (nicotine) to help with depression that you did not know you struggled with. It does not make you weak, whiny, or anything else...just human. I hope you find a way to deal with your depressive symptoms even if temporary. Exercise, as was mentioned can be nearly as effective as anti-depressants according to some studies. Not everything comes down to being "strong." Chemical shifts are not generally something that you can do much about.

Sincerely,

Jmiah

(Jeremy Hicks, LSW, CAADC, CCDP-D) - so you don't think I'm just spouting off.
Addiction specialist and fellow quit brother
candor dat viribus alas
Sincerity gives wings to strength.
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Scowick65
Member Avatar
Quit Sherpa
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.
1 Problem + Nicotine = 2 Problems
"Cavers find a way to cave. Quitters find a way to quit" ~ 30

Post with March 2011
Day 2,600: 1/22/2018
Day 0,001: 12/11/2010

HOF Speach: I am not a unique and special butterfly
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
jmiah
Member Avatar
Bastardly Quitter
[ *  * ]
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 7:49 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.

Well said, hell of an inbalance.
candor dat viribus alas
Sincerity gives wings to strength.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kneedragger
Member Avatar
Quitter
[ *  * ]
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 8:49 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.

I get you're point, Scowick, but would this realization help you make a decision as to whether or not you should use anti-depressants?
Quit Date - 3/15/11
HOF Date - 6/22/11

HOF Speech:
Welcome to My Spy Movie

My Life as a Quitter:
Time to Grow a Spine
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Scowick65
Member Avatar
Quit Sherpa
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 11:59 am
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 8:49 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.

I get you're point, Scowick, but would this realization help you make a decision as to whether or not you should use anti-depressants?

I would not use anti-depressants because I have a strong bias against drugs of any sort. I am sure this is a hard call on your part. Scowick has a strong bias against drugs but used nicotine for 20 years? 'Crazy'
1 Problem + Nicotine = 2 Problems
"Cavers find a way to cave. Quitters find a way to quit" ~ 30

Post with March 2011
Day 2,600: 1/22/2018
Day 0,001: 12/11/2010

HOF Speach: I am not a unique and special butterfly
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
teamgreen
Member Avatar
Two Bit Whore
[ *  *  * ]
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 8:59 am
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 8:49 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.

I get you're point, Scowick, but would this realization help you make a decision as to whether or not you should use anti-depressants?

I definitely hesitate to comment on something clinical since, and let me be perfectly clear about this, I am wholly unqualified.

That said, I definitely had points along the way that I felt down, easily angered, overly emotional, etc. Like Scowick says, it really does take time, but at 493 days, I can tell you those feelings continued to fade for me as time went by. What was left, I believe, is normal unfettered human emotion that I needed to learn healthier ways of coping with (just like the rest of the humans on the planet have to). I think you understand all that, and I realize that's not really what you are asking. As for the meds, had I sought medical attention, would I have been prescribed something? Maybe. If I had, would I have been reticent and unnerved by the prospect? Probably. But ultimately, I've become more and more pragmatic over time. I try not to worry about the way I would like things to be, and instead take them as they are as best I can. As such, if a medical professional I trust thinks I need meds, I'm going to take heart, and if it will make my and others around me's lives better? I think I would take that pragmatic step. You see a therapist, so obviously you're not one who scoffs at medical attention.

Either way, I wouldn't necessarily make judgments at day 122 about whether or not this "troubled" you is the new and permanent you. For that part, give it some more time, and as you are doing, continue to seek new and improved "non-vice" ways to cope with good old fashion life.

Damn, preachier than I thought, but oh well. You got a couple of my cents now.
Quitting is the most important thing you'll do today.

Caving is not an option.
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per034
Member Avatar
Quit Ninja
[ *  *  * ]
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 10:29 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 11:59 am
Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 8:49 am
kneedragger
Jul 21, 2011, 9:29 am
rustaf
Jul 20, 2011, 1:48 pm
Scowick65
Jul 20, 2011, 9:37 am
kneedragger
Jul 20, 2011, 11:18 am
Day - 127

Havin' a bit of a tough run.  It occurred to me not too long ago that the rage and mood swings usually associated with the early quit had not subsided as much as I would have expected.  I still get pretty frustrated and I can be thrown into a mood swing with little provocation.  I also feel like that voice in my head that says wildly inappropriate things at high volumes is coming closer and closer to breaking through the surface. 

Anyway, I guess I thought I was handling it, but recently my therapist took notice.  In a recent session she recommended anti-depressants.  It was a pretty big blow to my feeling of accomplishment, but she seems to feel like my mood swings are extreme and effecting my ability to function productively.  And of course she thinks it could be taking its toll on my wife.

She assures me that the goal is not to lobotomize me, but it's hard not to feel like I'm just trading one crutch for another.  If this is my new reality, then maybe I just need to learn to live with it.  Regardless, it's been very difficult not to be depressed about possibly needing anti-depressants.  That's obviously counter-productive, but that's been my world for the last week or so.  If anyone's got any advice on this one, I'm all ears.

I had a funk in the 120s. I have not had many since and I am on day 222.

Would you feel the same about anti-depressants if they were insulin for diabetes? You may have a chemical imbalance in your head that needs some adjusting to function in a better way. If that new crutch can save your marriage, your job, the life you have, isn't that worth one pill in the morning or night? Strength is asking for help, not ignoring the problem.

I'm glad you responded, Russ. Partly because I love your avatar, but mostly because I wanted you're opinion. I get the whole chemical imbalance argument, it's just unfortunate that having an imbalance feels a lot like being a whiney bitch.

Regardless of whether or not I'm chemically imbalanced, I'm struggling to find a rationale for anti-depressants that makes sense to me. I think the logic proposed by my therapist is that I'm attempting to adapt, both psychologically and physiologically, to life without nicotine and this imbalance is a temporary side effect of that.

If that's the case, and it's really temporary, then the pills only serve to help me through this rough patch as my body attempts to adjust. This explanation is somewhat appealing as it suggests only a temporary need for medication. But part of me feels that if this is part of the suffering I have coming to me to free myself from nicotine, then I should bare that burden and fight for my freedom on my own. Maybe that's immature, or it's my inner Braveheart speaking, I don't know, but I can't help feeling like I'm cheating on my quit.

The other possibility is that she's wrong, and this is just who I am. Maybe this aspect of me has been muted over the last 25 years by an addiction to nicotine, but if this is my new reality, then I should learn to cope on my own.

What am I missing, Russ?

Adding my 2cents again. Sorry. This conversation is good for me as well because my symptom was/is depression as well.

Here is the ledger

Day 127 vs #of Days you dipped

For me:

Day 222 clean vs 7,300 days of dipping. Probably 2,000 cans dipped.

We have to allow some time for our bodies and mind to adjust.

I get you're point, Scowick, but would this realization help you make a decision as to whether or not you should use anti-depressants?

I would not use anti-depressants because I have a strong bias against drugs of any sort. I am sure this is a hard call on your part. Scowick has a strong bias against drugs but used nicotine for 20 years? 'Crazy'

This is a good conversation here. Kneedragger, I think your mindset is exactly where my mindset would be. I am very much of the "suck it up and be a man" variety. Or at least I was. Then someone very close to me had problems with depression. My attitude was "suck it up and be a man." That was the advice I gave and it didn't work. It spiraled into a deeper depression and bordered on suicidal. I am now a proponent on anti-depressants. I used to think that "depression" was just a new term for being a pussy. I don't think that way anymore. This is real - and there are tools to help you deal with it. Just like KTC is a tool to help you deal with your nicotine addiction, anti-depressants are a tool to help you deal with your depression.

We all quit this nicotine because it was going to kill us. Don't think for a minute that depression can't kill you.

Talk to your therapist about a program. Weaning on and weaning off and how long you should do that for. See if perhaps a 6 month regimen will get you through the haze and you won't need the anti-depressants anymore. Don't think of this as forever. Tell your therapist your worried about "forever" and that you need a concrete plan that shows you the light at the end of the tunnel.

I was of the same mind as you, so I completely understand where you're coming from. Depression isn't "being a pussy." It's real. Get the help that's available.
The love you get here is conditional. The condition is that you are quit.

"Every time you bump someone and dont fix it, a kitten dies" - Jost2Brown
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Scowick65
Member Avatar
Quit Sherpa
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
This is why I love this site.
1 Problem + Nicotine = 2 Problems
"Cavers find a way to cave. Quitters find a way to quit" ~ 30

Post with March 2011
Day 2,600: 1/22/2018
Day 0,001: 12/11/2010

HOF Speach: I am not a unique and special butterfly
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rustaf
Proud tornado of quit jackassery
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Scowick65
Jul 21, 2011, 10:51 am
This is why I love this site.

I think what it ultimately comes down to is what your comfort level is with meds after listening to your therapist, a med provider (preferably a psychiatrist or a mental health nurse practitioner), your spouse, yourself, and a bunch of people on the internet that have some experience going through the same kind of shit. It can be done without meds for sure. I have seen a lot of people suffer needlessly when they could have gotten help through psych meds, especially men.

I guess I would suggest to try them out. If you aren't satisfied with the results then you haven't lost anything by trying.

You said earlier that you felt as though you were cheating on your quit by trying to gain relief from the depression. Did the depression play a role in your relapse before?
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kneedragger
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Day - 129 - You can't buy support like this...

I guess I can't really claim to be worried about being a pussy, because I'm going to admit publicly right now that I got choked up a bit just now when I checked the site. I continue to be mystified by what makes complete strangers put so much sincere effort into helping me. All I can say is thanks. You guys are really helping me think this through and you've made several points I hadn't considered. The fact that it's all so free of judgment just makes it all the more amazing to me.

Alright, so enough with the gushing. Russ, to answer your question, I never really thought of depression as playing a role in my prior failures. I remember a distinct uneasiness prior to caving, but always thought of it more as anxiety. It was like a weird tension, and I convinced myself I could find relief from it with nicotine. I'm probably not explaining it well, but one thing I can say definitively is that I didn't do anything about it. I think that's part of how I planned to cave the last time - by not doing everything I could to get the help I needed. I instead used it as an excuse to run back to my addiction. So the most important thing for me this time around is not make that mistake again. To get the help I need and do everything I can to protect my quit.

I think what I'm taking away from all this is that I need to do two things.

1). The first is show this thread to my wife. I've committed to making her my partner in this, and I think this thread will help her understand what I'm dealing with and how others have, rightly or wrongly, dealt with similar issues. Assuming that goes well…

2). …the second thing is for my wife and I to meet with my therapist to discuss a plan for the judicious use of medication, hopefully in a non-"forever" sort of way.

Please feel free to pontificate if you disagree with my conclusions or believe there to be glaring omissions.

Thanks to everyone who responded, both in this thread and in PMs. A few personal notes, Scowick, never apologize again for posting on this thread. I've definitely learned to value your input. And, Teamgreen, it's good to hear from you. You were a huge part of my quit when I was in the July 2010 group and now you're helping me stay quit this time around. Amazing. Thanks, brother.

Thanks to you all.

-KD
Quit Date - 3/15/11
HOF Date - 6/22/11

HOF Speech:
Welcome to My Spy Movie

My Life as a Quitter:
Time to Grow a Spine
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Parputt
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One Day At A Time, One Mile At A Time!
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There is no shame in admitting you need help and definitely no shame in taking medication it will help.
QD: 1-13-11
HOF: 4-22-11
Sobriety date: 3-4-07

One is one too many
One more is never enough


This Is My Quit

You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself, any direction you choose ~ Dr. Seuss
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Remshot
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The One
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If you go the meds way, remember that it takes time for them to become effective, and if you go off of them, you cannot quit cold turkey. You must be weened from them.

QSXtreme

Quit -1/23/06
HOF -5/02/06
May 2006 Drama Queens

Proverbs 18:2

"A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion."



A Quit Plan: Do you have one?


CLOSE THE DOOR. In my opinion, it’s the single most important step in your final quit. There is one moment, THE moment, when you finally let go and surrender to the quit.
After that moment, no temptation will be great enough, no lie persuasive enough to make you commit suicide by using tobacco. SportDad 1/13/05


Warm summer sun, shine kindly here;
Warm southern wind, blow softly here;
Green sod above, lie light, lie light.-
Good-night, dear heart, good-night.

Be silly, be honest, be kind
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Scowick65
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Good stuff. Maybe after you make your choice and some time passes you might assess your choice. I am curious and would like to learn a bit.
1 Problem + Nicotine = 2 Problems
"Cavers find a way to cave. Quitters find a way to quit" ~ 30

Post with March 2011
Day 2,600: 1/22/2018
Day 0,001: 12/11/2010

HOF Speach: I am not a unique and special butterfly
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kneedragger
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155 Days - Update on the drugs - sorry this is a bit stream of consciousness, but thought some might appreciate the update. Here's what's transpired since our last round of posts.

My wife and I decided that I should try the anti-depressants and discussed it with my therapist. Unfortunately, my therapist is a Phd, not an MD, so she had to refer me to someone else to get an actual prescription. This involved trying to summarize everything I'd uncovered with my prior therapist in a single 90 minute session with a new lady who I didn't know, trust or even particularly like. It put me in a pretty sour mood, and kinda made my head hurt. I had several "ah, just fuck it" kind of moments, where it just didn't seem worth the trouble to get this stranger to understand me. But eventually I got through it, choked down her egregious bill and left with a prescription for Lexapro, with a chaser of Ativan thrown in for good measure.

Lexapro works as an SSRI drug, which is the mechanism of action. Without getting too detailed about what that means, for most people, it takes four to six weeks to build up in the body before it starts having an impact on depression. Some people claim they feel something immediately. My personal belief is that this a combination of placebo effect and perhaps the relief that comes from having something that gives you hope. Regardless, I haven't had any immediate improvement in my depression symptoms in the week I've been taking the drug. But I have had side effects.

For one, I'm absolutely exhausted. My sleep patterns have been upset at night, so this is contributing to it, but it feels like more than just tired from a bad night's sleep. Last Sat I slept for two hours in the afternoon, still went to bed at 9pm and didn't wake up until 9am the next morning. Then I was still exhausted all day. This wasn't a common side effect that the doctor discussed with me, so I'm planning to ask her about it in my next appointment on Wed.

Side effects that I was expecting included nausea and anxiety. I haven't experienced nausea, but I have had other forms of digestion discomfort. So far, Lexapro has turned my asshole into a bazooka. Supposedly, these symptoms only last for three or four days, so we'll see if they subside.

I've also definitely felt the anxiety. Unfortunately, for me it's actually given my some pretty strong craves. It's just kind of this antsy tension in the small of my back, combined with feeling scatter-brained and struggling to concentrate on things. Not sure why, but it's had me thinking of dip a lot more than usual. I've already binged on pizza twice this week, which I haven't done since the first few weeks of my quit. Ativan is numbing, but it doesn’t seem to quite target it for me. Plus it's addictive, so I'm scared of it. I've only tried one, and I'm thinking I'll probably throw the rest of them away. The new shrink lady said she could prescribe a combination of Lexapro and Wellbutrin if anxiety becomes a problem. Since Wellbutrin works on dopamine receptors, it's often helpful in fighting cravings. It actually lists anxiety as a common side effect as well though, so I'm a bit confused about that. Again, I plan to discuss this more with my therapist.

Finally, libido. I was warned of this one, but if I'm being honest, I think it's pretty cruel. It's like the Pharma companies kicking you when you're down. You never realize what you've got until it's gone. I'm not even talking about sex…just the option to rub one out in the shower if I feel like it. That's every man's god given right. And just to be clear, I still have the urge to do that, and I can still get it up…I just can't finish. I guess I thought I was in pretty good shape, but I'm lacking in wrist endurance and I have no skin left on the bishop… It wouldn't be so bad if I couldn't do it and didn't want to. But wanting to and not being able to just sucks.

Anyway, I have nothing to report on efficacy yet. Hopefully, my next post will have more good news. As I mentioned, there's a number of issues I needs to investigate further with my therapist. I'll update you if something interesting comes out of those conversations.

Proud to be quit with you. Keep fightin' the good fight, gentleman.

-KD out
Quit Date - 3/15/11
HOF Date - 6/22/11

HOF Speech:
Welcome to My Spy Movie

My Life as a Quitter:
Time to Grow a Spine
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kneedragger
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Day - 157

I've had two appointments in the last two days, one each with the two therapists I'm seeing, first the MD, then the Phd. But before I get to that, I'm feeling the need to get something off my chest:

I'd like to just give a deeply satisfying and heartfelt fuck you to the world for this mountain of shit. Serve up your best, world…I got three words for you…I’M STILL QUIT!

Now that I've got that out of my system, my first appt was yesterday with shrink #2; the M.D. She felt my side-effects were excessive, so she wanted to change my prescriptions. But she also told me she was going to be on vacation for the next two weeks, so I was immediately worried about being stuck with a decision that wasn't working. I decided to prioritize the side-effects that I was trying to solve for. The biggest issue for me was that I was experiencing strong cravings. I think the cravings are associated with the side effect of heightened anxiety that's very unsettling. At the same time, I've had feelings that most on this site would refer to as the fuck its. It's this feeling that I'm putting up with all this shit, I have two fucking therapists, I'm taking all these drugs, wouldn't it be easier to just say fuck it and dive into a tin.

Anyway, the cravings are strong and I'm back to avoiding streets with bodegas and tobacco shops. For this reason, I decided getting help with the cravings is more important than fixing my broken tool or my explosive diarrhea. Since I could only change one thing, I stuck with the Lexapro and added Wellbutrin. Wellbutrin works on Dopamine, so it has a side effect of lessoning cravings for those addicted to nicotine. So now I'm on both of them, and eventually, I'll probably have to swap Lexapro for Prozac. But hopefully, I can do that after little miss M.D. comes back from holiday. I also found it interesting that I was having all these side effects with the lowest possible dose of Lexapro. I was only taking 10mg, and my therapist was hoping she could up it to closer to 20mg. I can't imagine the craps I'd be taking under that regiment.

My other therapist meeting was this morning. She's more empathetic and less clinical which is nice. I went with my wife. I think she appreciates my willingness to let her in on everything that's going on and be a part of the decisions about treatment. But my therapist thinks I lean on her when she's there and don't work as hard on the session as I would if it was one on one. There may be something to that. So my wife is going to come periodically going forward but not all the time.

So what's the big summary? First depression sucks, and I definitely feel depressed. The toughest thing is that it's just barely there…below the surface…subtle but corrosive and quite debilitating. If you think you might be suffering from low to moderate depression, definitely talk to someone. Left untreated, it usually gets worse.

Second, these drugs take commitment and patience; two attributes that are in short supply when you're depressed. Having a partner to remind you that you have to see it through can help. I'm glad my wife is there with me, because my case of the fuck its might get the better of me otherwise.

Lastly, it might take a bit more experimenting to find the right mix of medication for me. And it will likely be another 3-4 wks before I start feeling any benefit. I'll be sure to keep you guys posted. Thanks to everyone that's expressed support. I hope to god someone finds all this personal shit helpful.

-KD
Quit Date - 3/15/11
HOF Date - 6/22/11

HOF Speech:
Welcome to My Spy Movie

My Life as a Quitter:
Time to Grow a Spine
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